HomeWar With TSL
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War With TSL
by lbs21 October 22nd 2016, 01:25
We started off so great. Both teams were polite, sociable, and nice to each other. Now we're here, and here isn't the best of places. How did we come to this location?
When war started, Proelio assured us that his base was fair. He said it directly during the meeting, and we have that on video. However, it clearly wasn't. The Sal spawn has accessed to a covered bridge, whereas raiders have access to an uncovered pipe. Sal spawns closer to a secret entrance that leads to the top of the inner gates. But most importantly, Sal has a cliff which they can use for cover to spawnkill raiders, whereas raiders can not attempt to kill them while they are in the cliffs; there's perfect cover if they step away from the edge.
As such, we asked them to switch spawns. They agreed, but we still lost, largely because it was our first time raiding. Despite our fort being completely fair, TSL lost when they first came, too. However, sometime after the raid, we asked Proelio whether or not we could swap teams again. He said "Sure, if you'd like." We even went so far as to add it to the war contract, but they never protested.
However, when we came to raid their base later, they claimed to never have agreed to such a deal. I had to show them the screenshots I took; otherwise, we'd have been stuck on the raider's team, when we wrote detailed plans about how to best defend their fort. However, because I called them on their lie and showed them the screenshot, they were forced to switch spawns.
After switching spawns, though, something else seemed to be the problem. They asked us to kick a member. Why? The teams weren't even. It should be noted that not 24 hours before, however, LCD kindly requested Sal not to raid because LCD wouldn't have enough to defend. Sal raided anyway, 13 against LCD's 7, and nothing about kicking to make fair teams was spoken.
The grounds for Sal's claim that they could remove one person came from a quote from PoW saying "Equal numbers shows skill.". However, it should be clear that we never agreed to show skill at the raids. If we chose to win by numbers, that was a valid option. Never did PoW say "We'll raid with equal numbers."
So let's recap. We wanted to switch spawns, which should definitely be allowed because according to Proelio, the base is fair. If he thinks the teams are equal and unbiased, shouldn't we be able to choose? If the base is fair, it will not help us. Clearly, he knows the base is unequal, and didn't want to be on the raiding team. However, he agreed to it, so he was forced to.
He also wanted the raid to be equal numbers. Despite the fact that this was never agreed to on the LCD side, and was never mentioned in the war contract, he wanted equal numbers because he wanted us to show skill. Bit late for that after they raided us 13 to 7. But apparently, they can't swallow 11 on 9.
After we refused to dismiss a member, they kicked a member of LCD. This is where things go downhill. They removed PoW's admin, and didn't admit to the admin abuse for HOURS after the raid. PoW was never adminned, so he couldn't check the logs. Sal collectively lied to LCD, refusing to show logs and insisting it be swept under the carpet. Proelio watched for more than an hour, but never corrected his members. That's just as good as lying. He actually had admin at the LCD fort, and could have told the truth in five seconds flat using the :m command. He had no reason not to. Sal systematically withheld the truth from LCD in an attempt to cover up their wrongdoing, and that's, quite frankly, disgusting.
Afterwords, due to calls for logs and an admission from one of their members, Sal finally admitted to AA. However, despite the fact that it's assumed that a raid win goes to the raiders in the event of AA, Sal refused to give it. They made demands on things that were already negotiated, like rules for scheduling a raid, something they'd already agreed to. They refused to give LCD the win despite the fact that they had illegally kicked a member and systematically covered it up. They refused to admit wrongdoing, and when accused of lying, Proelio said that he didn't lie specifically, and that his members were "uninformed" when he sat by his members and watch them disseminate misinformation without doing the slightest bit to correct it. Intentionally spreading falsehoods is lying in my book, and if it isn't in yours, it's clearly just as bad (having the same results and intentions behind it) and should be treated as such.
LCD knew that Sal could not be trusted to keep their word, and they wanted unreasonable demands in exchange for the raid win LCD rightly deserved due to AA. Due to their dishonesty, LCD suspended contact and war indefinitely.
However, Sal wasn't content with this, and came to Luminar to challenge LCD. PoWeR beat Weaponization ten to nothing on an open field. Sal wasn't content with this, so they offered to battle LCD in a 6v6 RCL match. PoWeR accepted, and, as of 10/22/16, we're currently preparing for that match. That's where we are with Sal right now.
When war started, Proelio assured us that his base was fair. He said it directly during the meeting, and we have that on video. However, it clearly wasn't. The Sal spawn has accessed to a covered bridge, whereas raiders have access to an uncovered pipe. Sal spawns closer to a secret entrance that leads to the top of the inner gates. But most importantly, Sal has a cliff which they can use for cover to spawnkill raiders, whereas raiders can not attempt to kill them while they are in the cliffs; there's perfect cover if they step away from the edge.
As such, we asked them to switch spawns. They agreed, but we still lost, largely because it was our first time raiding. Despite our fort being completely fair, TSL lost when they first came, too. However, sometime after the raid, we asked Proelio whether or not we could swap teams again. He said "Sure, if you'd like." We even went so far as to add it to the war contract, but they never protested.
However, when we came to raid their base later, they claimed to never have agreed to such a deal. I had to show them the screenshots I took; otherwise, we'd have been stuck on the raider's team, when we wrote detailed plans about how to best defend their fort. However, because I called them on their lie and showed them the screenshot, they were forced to switch spawns.
After switching spawns, though, something else seemed to be the problem. They asked us to kick a member. Why? The teams weren't even. It should be noted that not 24 hours before, however, LCD kindly requested Sal not to raid because LCD wouldn't have enough to defend. Sal raided anyway, 13 against LCD's 7, and nothing about kicking to make fair teams was spoken.
The grounds for Sal's claim that they could remove one person came from a quote from PoW saying "Equal numbers shows skill.". However, it should be clear that we never agreed to show skill at the raids. If we chose to win by numbers, that was a valid option. Never did PoW say "We'll raid with equal numbers."
So let's recap. We wanted to switch spawns, which should definitely be allowed because according to Proelio, the base is fair. If he thinks the teams are equal and unbiased, shouldn't we be able to choose? If the base is fair, it will not help us. Clearly, he knows the base is unequal, and didn't want to be on the raiding team. However, he agreed to it, so he was forced to.
He also wanted the raid to be equal numbers. Despite the fact that this was never agreed to on the LCD side, and was never mentioned in the war contract, he wanted equal numbers because he wanted us to show skill. Bit late for that after they raided us 13 to 7. But apparently, they can't swallow 11 on 9.
After we refused to dismiss a member, they kicked a member of LCD. This is where things go downhill. They removed PoW's admin, and didn't admit to the admin abuse for HOURS after the raid. PoW was never adminned, so he couldn't check the logs. Sal collectively lied to LCD, refusing to show logs and insisting it be swept under the carpet. Proelio watched for more than an hour, but never corrected his members. That's just as good as lying. He actually had admin at the LCD fort, and could have told the truth in five seconds flat using the :m command. He had no reason not to. Sal systematically withheld the truth from LCD in an attempt to cover up their wrongdoing, and that's, quite frankly, disgusting.
Afterwords, due to calls for logs and an admission from one of their members, Sal finally admitted to AA. However, despite the fact that it's assumed that a raid win goes to the raiders in the event of AA, Sal refused to give it. They made demands on things that were already negotiated, like rules for scheduling a raid, something they'd already agreed to. They refused to give LCD the win despite the fact that they had illegally kicked a member and systematically covered it up. They refused to admit wrongdoing, and when accused of lying, Proelio said that he didn't lie specifically, and that his members were "uninformed" when he sat by his members and watch them disseminate misinformation without doing the slightest bit to correct it. Intentionally spreading falsehoods is lying in my book, and if it isn't in yours, it's clearly just as bad (having the same results and intentions behind it) and should be treated as such.
LCD knew that Sal could not be trusted to keep their word, and they wanted unreasonable demands in exchange for the raid win LCD rightly deserved due to AA. Due to their dishonesty, LCD suspended contact and war indefinitely.
However, Sal wasn't content with this, and came to Luminar to challenge LCD. PoWeR beat Weaponization ten to nothing on an open field. Sal wasn't content with this, so they offered to battle LCD in a 6v6 RCL match. PoWeR accepted, and, as of 10/22/16, we're currently preparing for that match. That's where we are with Sal right now.
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